The problem with resetting the world would, as you say, lose a lot of work. Me and dan_the_wolf have been building Bespin from Star Wars almost since the start of 1.6. Because of this I think that instead of a complete world reset we should maybe change the mods then generate a new world with any new mods. This new world would have all the new resources and things and could be, in effect, a "mining world" where everyone goes to gather things, rather than a new main world.
Go reread the thread. The point of a reset wouldn't be to allow the new mods/removed mods to not be in the world generation (though that's an added bonus). The point of a reset is to restore balance to the world because people like me have like 500,000 Glowstone Dust.
There's no need to do that because we decided on the basement solution. We voted on it. Get to work <333 The theme of the server will be Super Mega Challenge. The world is corrupt and must be Teraformed in order to become habitable. The world starts with only a few chunks being Teraformed, and all of the regions outside of this border are considered Corrupt, with very difficult negative effects such as acid rain. Teraforming happens in an outward motion from the center of spawn, slowly creeping out as we the players contribute items of sacrifice (think resources, iron, trees, idk) to fuel the Teraformer. Make it happen SK. We'll let you out of the basement once you do <3
You could have like, mining fatigue, weakness, slowness, etc as effects, changing with the day and night cycles or weather cycles :3 SK get to work <3 (we will send dudu down there with u)
A similar idea was actually seriously discussed on here a few years ago, but it was for Vincent back then. The world would start inhospitable and then you'd have to make habitats. I didn't go along with it though because I figure the novelty would wear off pretty quickly. It honestly sounds like a potential hell hole at spawn for a few weeks...
The only problem with Bees, as I see it now, is GenDustry (as many others have stated). On the last server it took me AGES to get to the point in which bees were really good. After discovering GenDustry that was cut down to 2-3 days since I already knew what I was doing. Mutating bees used to take time and effort and you needed a good source of power other than bees to actually have it going, which isn't that case now, where you can power bees with other bees rather quickly. I'm not opposed to going back to using frames and alvearies and mutating trees way slower and depending on luck, that is the fun way. Way more work, but it give you that sense of achievement when you do get the rare bees and they don't die or turn into ass. Using the beeswax, honey and jelly and propolis, which now are pretty much useless part from mutagen. No need at all for Liquid DNA, which is rather sad. Last version was great, it literally took me months to get where I was with bees and the design I had for it.With GenDustry I achieved that in a day, all I really needed was a metric shit-ton of bronze ingots.
Honestly, my playtime on the server has been waning a lot these past few weeks, so I'm not totally against a world reset. With that being said, I do agree wholeheartedly that a lot of the issues this world have stemmed from Gendustry. But for someone like me, who has done bees 'till death do us part' on every version since 1.2.5; I do think it's a breath of fresh air for people who do want to get into it, but don't want to spend the many hours it entails to get one decent bee. Even with that said, I will still do bees even if Gendustry was removed, you'd just hear more bitching. On the topic of the NPCs, I think I've voiced my opinion fairly well with what I think about it. I remember when there were minimal shops in spawn in 1.2.5 and even 1.4.7. Selling things like all kinds of food may seem like a good idea at first, but it just takes away from what makes mincraft...well minecraft. I remember when I found that you could buy 4 STEAK SANDWICHES for one iron nugget, after I got some iron, I promptly went back to spawn and did not have to farm food for the next month. NPCs have taken out a lot of stuff that you have to do to survive and thrive. Being able to buy food, records and all mob drops; Just takes away from the basic things you had to do to survive and huntin minecraft. IMHO The NPCs should either be ripped out altogether, or their prices reevaluated GREATLY. Regardless. If all of this means we have to reset the map, then so be it. If it means we can get some awesome mods in addition to some we lost previously, then I say go for it! Especially with TC4.1 released and ExU 1.0.3, I would happily accept a world reset (especially if some time was actually taken to balance things properly).
I would like to see a removal of all automated ore generation, and a nerfing of what bees can produce to a more limited set. But that's because one of my favorite aspects of Minecraft is trading. When everything is effectively free, nothing has value. Destroying automated ore collection greatly improves the quality of any market we create... new players will be able to sell things like redstone, gold, and quartz from the start because they will be in demand even by the end-game players. Right now, only the most tedious of items has notable value in the marketplace, because so much wealth just appears in the game while players idle. I believe that a good community market will greatly alleviate the 'suffering' of having to gather resources manually. Dedicated 'rich' players can sell services (such as enchants, advanced machine time, and power) in return for resources gathered by less advanced players. A strong currency with sufficient liquidity would help ensure that it is easy to trade with other players for the resources you lack. Personally, I nominate Sapphires as a good currency; they are relatively rare (after you eliminate quarries) and have no unique role in game (unlike Certus Quartz). ----- An alternative to no-auto-generation might be to allow all resource generating blocks (including bees) to only function on the mining world... and disallow claims and lock signs on that world, as well as allowing theft and murder there. Hiding your lasers deep, guarding who knows about them, keeping your location a secret... all interesting challenges to automated resource generation that help to self-limit the amount of that type of behavior taken, while being completely optional. I'm sure this comes with its own issues and balance, so this is more of a crazy idea than a serious suggestion. ----- That all said, I'm not attached to the idea of no auto-mining/bees. I just think that any kind of automatic resource gathering puts a time limit on the viability of the map. I'd like to see a map that had more staying power before the haves and have-nots diverged to the point of inanity. This is partly accomplished by just slowing down the process (eg, removing Gendustry), but as wolf pointed out any automated resource collection is eventually exponential... it just depends on how long.
Actually this is where I campaign quietly to have the Osmotic Enchanter disabled. I would also be in favor of disabling a few recipes in KAMI, or perhaps disabling KAMI entirely. I don't have any of the endgame stuff yet, but it certainly sounds to be completely beyond the pale in terms of balance. If Thaumcraft were removed, I think I may completely lose interest in the server. It's my only non-negotiable, and if it goes so shall I. I think its removal is unlikely though. From the discussion in here, it sounds like there needs to be a massive change in bees - not a removal of gendustry perhaps, but a reduction in the multitudinous variety of things that can can be bee-generated. Every time I wonder how someone would mass-produce some resource or another, the answer is always "bees". I don't think that's acceptable. I wouldn't like to see the server reset. My preference is for ExtraBiomes XL.
I think this is the point that the term "Balancing" should be defined. It is not just about what an item does for a player, it is also what effect that item, or lack of said item has on server performance. For example, the post above me mentions disabling the osmotic enchanter, lets take a look at that. What does it do? It gives you certain enchants with ease (once you set it up). Is it a little OP? Certainly. Is it easy to get/set up? Certainly not. It requires a decent amount of research, and nodes to supply the vis. It took me several days to find enough nodes to supply me even without the osmotic enchanter, much less with it. It is by no means unlimited, I cannot sit and pump out enchants all day long, off of one wand (highest level) I can get maybe 8 items enchanted, but filling that wand will drain all my nodes and not even fill it, and it will be an hour at least till it is filled again. Can it's effect be reproduced by other means? Yes, absolutely. MFR grinders for XP, vanilla enchanting table to get enchants, auto disenchanter to get the books, and last but not least, bibliocraft book copying for an unlimited (sorta, needs XP) supply of said enchanted books. What is the difference between these two methods? Honestly? the osmotic enchanter is a little more difficult to set up(have to find parts you can only get trough random worldgen totems), and takes more time to achieve, but in the end is easier to use, albeit a little limited. Using the grinder means a power supply, item routing/storing, fluid routing/storing, mobs spawning/being killed, and people being afk a lot to keep them running. Auto disenchanter means more power, liquid storage/dispensing, and a steady supply of books, which means a mob farm (more power/item sorting/storage) and a sugar cane farm (yet even more power and fluid storage/voiding) and a wheat farm(more of the same as before) The bibliocraft book copying is fairly simple, just requires ink, wood, iron, and books. Also note, the osmotic enchanter can only do vanilla/TC/TT enchants, you CANNOT get enchants from mods this way, but can easily be done with the mob farm/bibliocraft copying, so there is a loss with the osmotic enchanter. Looking from a perspective of server performance VS item power in this scenario, which do you think is better? People will achieve their desired results of ease and comfort, the only thing that stands in their way is what options they have. If the only way they can do something is to kill server performance, than they will kill server performance without a second thought. The balance we need is a trifecta of value of gameplay, item power(or ease of gaining powerful items, not necessarily the power of the item), and last but certainly not least is server performance. I could do the whole question/answer for the pick/shovel/protoclay but I won't as this post has droned on for long enough, but I just want to say the pick and shovel with the protoclay NEED to stay. If I did not have them at this moment I would probably be running 4+ quarries 24/7, and all the stuff that goes along supporting them. With the tools I have been able to go out and do a targeted mining mission for about an hour and have the items I need for a few days or more, but that is also due to the fact that with KAMI I don't need massive amounts of ores or resources, I can just relax and do what I want, which quite honestly is to just build gargantuan mind blowing structures. I don't have sprawling power networks and automated machines because quite simply I do not need them anymore. I can go get what I need when I need it with ease, and that is all that I ask from end game, not "Moar fusions!" and the end result of KAMI, for me at least, is that instead of me using 12% of the server's CPU as I was when I left in 1.5, I can proudly say now that my base uses <1%, and if I am to believe what I was told the other day when a profile was done when I was online, that my base was basically using 0%. (also note that I have claimed over 110 chunks) Just think of it.... End game... <1% cpu usage.... that is heaven!
First of all i want to apologize about my not perfect English After digging through all responses [Finally], and getting point off all you guys its time to wrote my opinion For me so often resets screws the game... i can spend 2-3h a day on game max... on 1.4 i get fusion 2-3 days before reset And thats why i skipped 1.5 i just didn't have time My point is that defining thing as "OP" / "Balanced" depends on how we look on problem. I personally love industrial things like IC2/GT, even with it enormous amount of recepies and complicated processing route. I really miss RP2 and it's good old style computers/machinery It was challenging to wrote code on 8bit computer which controlled frame style auto farms. @buttonjs i see your point on removing automining, but for people like me playing mc will have compleatly no sense couse i this timestamps of resets i wouldn't be able to make even middle tech GT. Just getting enough resources is to slow in old fasion way. It was good with 1.2.4 moded or vanila when you didnt have many ways to spend resources on I will not make my opinion about TT/TC/KAMI or Gendustry couse i didn't use that mods on 1.6 I once on 1.4 tried to make bees but it was to insane for me I was playing with TC then too and it was fun but as i said earlier i preffer "industrial" kind of MC so TC with it's "Magic" style was boring and not challenging. To sum it all up... If people will like to make tones of stuff quick, couse they like to "have" tones of resources , they will always find a way to get in faster then others. So problem in my opinion is not ballancing... but many people that dont have ideas how to use that resources. Me and bebzonek for exaple got mfr and quarries couse we need both ores and stone to build and fully decore castle we are building. We dont have complicated automatic systems couse we dont need them even if we would finally make fusion it would have limited use like replacing other redundant energy supplies. Edit: I got idea... lets make RPG survi server with mods I dont think its proper place to wrote down my idea, so i will rethink whole concept and then post it in proper place
I have to admit... I never expected this to happen. I'm really interested to see if I'm right; will this result in a better economy or not? Will this eliminate the incentive to keep your base loaded (and lagging) constantly? What unintended side effects will occur? With wood now the unlimited resource (since biological auto-generation still works), will that mean more wood-oriented large builds? Will people actually put a value (however low) on plain cobble? I'm fascinated to find out.
