I think you are sorely mistaken my friend. My friend Sean. My dear, poorly mistaken friend Sean. Alchemy bags do not spawn infinite diamond blocks and should in fact be kept in the game. I vehemently disagree with taking the bags out of the game.
I agree with them being OP by allowing people to bypass the teleporter cost, the teleporter should account for the weight of the bag as well. And punishing you by losing the bag would make more sense I suppose, but having constant access to so many items, without have to worry about falling in lava and losing it all, makes the game more enjoyable for me at least. Other than that, I don't really see being able to carry more items as OP considering Alice is server primarily for building.
I think that EE is an interesting mod with features and ideas that could have a place in Alice, but have problems as they are. I get the feeling that EE could work it it were nerfed way down (features not necessarily removed, just nerfed). A few features that cause problems in my opinion are as follows- 1) Any way to convert a common or renewable resource into diamonds or other high quality items. That would be the gem of eternal density, some ways that the philosophers stone can be used, the table and tablet, etc. 2) The diamond generator. This just needs to be removed. It's expensive, but once you have it, you are good for the rest of the game. 3) Most of the power items are too effective. They just need to be nerfed. A good example of how to nerf is the 'ring of ignition'. The way it is now is that all of the fancy fireball/lava stuff is gone, but the fire resistance remains. Its incredibly expensive, and provides a feature that doesn't unbalance anything, but is worth the cost. All of the power items could use a nerfing like this, and the ones that can't be nerfed down should be disabled.
My general view of mods: Which criteria need to be considered when installing a new mod on the server? In my opinion there are 3 major points: - Performance: The most import issue I guess. Noone wants to play on a laggy server. - Balance: Also a critical point. I'll have a closer look on it later. - Fun: Do we actually need that mod? Is it any fun? A mod can be installed if AT LEAST point 1 and 2 are checked.. otherwise the mod wouldn't make any sense. About balance: What is balance? When can you call something balanced? I guess this topic needs to be discussed because some could argue that even buildcraft and IC are largely unbalanced (compared to vanilla...). For me there are 3 core mods without which I wouldn't play on the server: -Buildcraft: Piping systems, quarries, liquid pipes... everything great imho -Redpower: Even better piping systems, Awesome cutting recipes (covers,...) and a very good redstone system (though I don't know anything about the server performance of this mod) -Industrial Craft: Great EU system. Matter production itself is pretty balanced I guess. The only thing I don't like about the mod (advanced machines) are the solar arrays. They should be removed, but I think I'm the only one on the server who thinks that way Now it would make sense to balance every future mod in comparison to these 3 mods. That's the point where the problem with EE fits in. EE itself is a great mod and truly has an awesome EMC generation system (without the bugs it has right now), but you can't balance this mod to the other 3 without removing core features of it: - The EMC generation system is simply overpowered. - The tools are too strong (especially the aoe effects of hammer and axe) There are also good and "balanced" things like the alchemy bag as some people already mentioned- I hope you'll find a solution for this. Personally I don't think EE should stay on the server in any form. About Railcraft and Forestry: Railcraft: I haven't used it yet, but I don't think it adds any unbalance to the game. It just gives you the possibility to make some awesome train systems. Forestry: IMO it's not imba. You cannot simply grow trees fully automatically (you need to feed with humus + engines). This point makes the whole mod fairly balanced I think. YES, there is a lot of automation, but for me this is the point of most of the mods. Build clever systems (factories) to produce items (or EU). greets
What happens to all the items and resources we invested into EE...By the looks of it, EE is going to be removed...so yeh what happens. I really would like to know making 20 redmatter and then just to have the mod removed doesnt really seem so helpful. considering the resources put into redmatter...
first of all, we need to compile a list of bugs if we keep complaining about them, because on this particular topic, it's like "what should we remove from the server?" "EE is buggy" "what bugs?" ... Second, i dont think EMC is OP. example, 8192 cobble is 1 diamond. seems legit. the only real exploit i see is making ores and shoving them into the macerator to double them. that SEEMS like an exploit at first, but don't forget about the dark matter furnace and red matter furnace- they do almost the exact same thing. if that's the case, then we should take out the macerator. nobody wants that, though, right? Third, the server is non-competitive. there is no pvp, and we have disabled The End. therefore, the server is semi-creative, in that all the stuff is geared toward creating more and more stuff and nothing else. therefore, resource exploitation shouldnt matter. the only things i see fit to remove from EE are ore generation, due to doubling EE tools such as dark matter tools and power rings, due to buggyness teleportation exploit is small, and it's not like there's warfare on the server anyway, so i dont mind tp-ing alchemy bags for the low cost. We have all these mods, so the value of all the ores have been SUPER heightened. if u invest in machines of any form (redpower, railcraft, IC2, forestry, buildcraft), the end product becomes a non-recycleable. EX: say i make a macerator, which costs some metal and redstone. i can't get that redstone or metal back because EE wont turn it into emc, and i cant break it down. farming was actually one of the issues back on EE- x3n0 did factor farming in, the ability to harvest cobble quickly and just turn it into EMC, so i trust his judgement about how much his emc values are. One of u will inevitably bring this up- what about the UU system? will it be rendered useless? well yes, but the UU system sucks to me anyway. after all, 1 uu can create 20 cobble, and 9 uu can create 1 diamond.... to me, the time it takes to get EE's contraptions running is MUCH better and more efficient and NOT OP compared to UU. the only use that i see for uu is iridium. i don't like uranium, i prefer using EE to make a lava gen system. everything else with emc value from EE is fair game.
on the other thread, there was question about whether or not solar panels and advanced machines should be removed. i say yes and yes, because you can exchange HV solar panel system for EE lava to IC2 eu and get just as much, if not more, power from the sun. furthermore, advanced machines takes out the point of overclocking and the modules, so it seems balanced to take out advanced machines.
Seems like you have a point there ... but whats left from EE isn't much ... just the EMC generation/transmutation stuff.
What annoys me to all hell about EE? How absolutely simple it is to make a philosophers stone. I love the idea of the great work too much to accept" lol toss a diamond into dust lolz. "
that's still a good portion of EE. i'd rather have JUST that generation and transmutation stuff than anything else, because the IC2 stuff such as quantum armor is just as powerful, if not less buggy. also, i dont like the idea of stripping the entire minecraft planet of its resources- i'd rather leave that environment nice unless im building on it. i don't get what's op about the p-stone. none of its powers are game-changing -it's a portable workbench -it can change mobs -it does only slight amounts of transmutation, NONE of which would turn it into an easy auto-system except for charcoal -it can turn certain grounds into grounds of equal emc.
I wasn't talking balance, just how it is so easy when the true stone is the greatest work in Alchemy. >> /nerd
I have to say that i agree with iamweirdie now. Well, one thing is bugging me still ... SK said once that he has nerfed the EMC of things like cobble, dirt etc. because changing low value stuff to stuff of high value is the job of IC2. And if EE stays, i don't think anyone will use the Recycler (Scrap boxes? screw that shit) or the Mass Fab (except for getting iridium) anymore.
Well u say the amount of cobble needed for 1 diamond is balanced? . Let me calculate something: In this post http://www.skcraft.com/threads/nice-clean-working-automatic-setups-ideas.384/#post-2125 you can see a effective setup for a cobble stone factory. You can stack this factory above each other (every layer has a height of 2) . There are VERY little resource costs (2 lava, 2 water, 4 redstone torches, 8 redstone, 16 iron, some cobble/wood) per layer. You can easily make these resources with some diamonds you already have or something else (with the help of EE). Now let's say you stack 1 tower of it with 32 layers (good use for quarries). Every layer pumps out 4 cobble every 1.5 seconds. That is 1 diamond every 95 seconds with 32 layers. 64 layers (2 cobbletowers) -> 47 secs per diamond 128 layers (4 cobbletowers .. total space of 13 * 13 * 64) -> 23 secs per diamond When you afk 4 hours u got almost 10 stacks of diamonds. Build some condenser flowers with these diamonds and produce even MOAR diamonds. (and believe me, it doesn't take a long time). Once you will reach a point where you will be able to make every item in the game within some minutes... -> creative mode. Don't tell me it's hard to get the items/redstone for the cobbletowers... and it's not even hard to build (u can even use buildcraft blueprints once you got one). In my opinion it's just OP making diamonds out of cobblestone. The decision to remove EMC values from lots of items is totally right. About all the HV array complainers: Why do you even complain about HV arrays? I mean I don't like them either, but these are the most unimportant problem right now. You can make a fully automatic machine which puts out the same amount of EU/t (256 including night) as a HV array with a extremely small percentage of the resources used. How?: Build 13 geothermal generators, 1 retriever, some wiring, some buildcraft pipes and an energy condenser with some collectors ... Condense lava buckets and transpose them to the geothermals. PROFIT! It's so easy and doesn't need relevant space (can also be stacked above each other... hv panels can't)
or you can use lava cells... less EMC used per lava block. even better but alot of spare cells... maybe lots of water? then to be extracted into coolant and sell those en mass... uberprofit?
mhm. they are counter-compatible that EE and IC2... really compatible.almost every item can be condensed (even fuel cans) I think
this may all be true, but the one factor u forgot to count was the rate an energy condenser condenses items. there actually is a limit-speed that the energy condenser works. also, getting an energy condenser is NOT an easy task. also, i can see why some ppl are scared about the compact solars being taken out, seems odd to me o.o ... why take out compact solars? again, as i said, i trust EE's value system, so for me, the geothermal EE system seems pretty fair to me. one thing i noticed nobody has brought up- isnt the whole mass fab system a bit inefficient? let's assume an avg of 3 cobble per scrap- 99 cobble per scrap for 1 uu... not bad, right? well, consider how much EU goes into it as well. also, consider that 1 uu makes like 20cobble[cant remember] but 9 uu makes a diamond....?
also, i heard from someone (if this can be confirmed, great) that EE takes cpu- more than usual. maybe that's another reason EE is gettin the boot?
Even if you consider that factor... start with 1 condenser, afk some time to get some diamonds and make some more condensers - 5 diamonds per condenser, 2 iron, 3 dusts and 4 obsidian... and you say not an easy task? (also considering you usually have a bit more than 5 diamonds to start with if u already played on the server a bit ... ) Talking about the inefficiency of a mass fab... what else would you use the energy for? . Sure it's not efficient, but that is what makes it balanced imo .
work vs time is also an issue when u factor auto-mining, so it seems like a fair thing to do. also, consider this: you can either invest in energy condensing and keep getting exponentially more materials OR you can start investing in something else besides condensing and just come back from time to time. this same comparison can be made with auto-mining: you can invest in more quarries and get exponentially more materials OR invest in other things and keep auto-mining while building. as for the energy in a mass fab, i'd rather use it for an electric quarry [possible with power converters].
