YES! I'm so happy you asked this. This is precisely why I'm trying to get everyone's input on how the system will function. Going back to items 3&4 from the op, I want to keep the discussion open and hopefully the system can be made transparent enough so that everyone can participate in the regulation. The simplest thing I can think of, is a display showing total currency in circulation and the percent change over a period of time. If these numbers spike then you know there is a problem. Other safeguards should probably be implemented as well. I don't know what those are, but if you have ideas please post them. Making the Database code open source and posting it for everyone to see might also be a good idea.
It was Rater's mod 'til he left and we had to update it Uhh, showing people how we do things might be problematic, especially with the absence of lan cables (rednet).
that's a good idea having a system spike show up but at that stage its might be to late the moneys already injected into the system removing it again would be difficult especially if they where to spend it quickly
In the beginning, we'll have a limit in one of two forms (say so if you can think of more!): 1. A globally shared limit. All the money in everyone's account at any given time is restricted 2. Everyone's account has their own limit on them. Say if we've raised the limit but find there's too much money circling around, we can do something like taxes or lower the limit and any money someone has on their account that goes above the limit can be put 'on-hold'. Again, need ideas!!
i don't think a limit will work maby a limit based on time only some much can be injected at any given time that is to say if i where to go over deposit limit for a given time frame it wouldn't go thru and it would trip a flag for investigation
Fxstriker, you should go read some basic economic theory right now before someone really smacks you. There are two reasons for having a global limit. Firstly, controlling the amount of money circulating in a system is the prime way to control inflation of currency. It's the reason that governments (other then the US) avoid printing money for use. The more money available per capita, the more likely people are going to buy things for higher prices. In our case, inflation may be devastating to the health of the system because we are using a fixed buy-in and account limits. If prices increase relative to the base, new players may have issues buying in. (Hopefully avoidable through sales) Secondly, a limit on account holdings encourages transit of cash. If everyone could keep their money safe, why cash it in now. You have that risk that the commodity that you have just bought becomes less valuable whilst the cash will maintain relative value.
Sorry for the double, but I thought that this deserves another post. I think that the cash used here could be as more broadly. I push for a way to transfer money from account to account like in the real world. This opens up opportunities for services, and other payments (maybe like loans) to be done. Oh, and will there br any operating costs associated with running the economy? Especially, perhaps, distribution of economic reports.
And that is why we have 2-part systems. You show all the code but make the code authenticate clients using a secret key file with keys linked to client ids.
It's not that I'm worried about. The database program itself contains nothing that could compromise the security of the system. Thing I'm worried about is someone finding the ID of the database computer and spamming it. See, the way it works is it has to look through every rednet message and exclude ones that suck obviously. But even just looking through the messages takes up valuable computing time which can cause a valid machine to request something and fail because the database is busy being spammed. A DDOS if you will. I'm trying to find a way around this.
Before we all get ahead of ourselves, we must remember that as players we must do this without the help of mods. This list here: "Cobblestone= 1 Tin Ingot= 6 Coal= 22 Copper Ingot= 40 Iron Ingot= 12 Gold Ingot= 40 Steel Ingot= 42 Tungsten Ingot= 100 Diamond= 100 Ruby= 148 Sapphire= 100 Emerald- 800 Chrome Ingot- 800 Titanium Ingot- 512 Iridium- 800" Is good, however it needs tweaking. I know for a fact I can mine 800 Cobble fast, real fast. I propose an updated list: 64 Cobblestone= 1 16 Tin Ingot= 5 32 Coal=5 1 Iron Ingot= 5 1 Copper Ingot= 10 1 Gold Ingot= 15 1 Steel Ingot= 20 1 Sapphire= 35 1 Ruby= 50 1 Emerald= 70 1 Diamond= 90 1 Chrome Ingot= 250 1 Titanium Ingot= 250 1 Iridium= 1000 This will obviously be debated over and over again until a group of us can decide. It will also be added to with more materials. This list should just be base materials, nothing fancy. Now when it comes to the original distribution of money, sad fact of the matter is that we must make this work with items and there is no money. Having a conversion chart that can be agreed upon however is a good start to making places like the Bazaar work.
Well, all systems are in some way susceptible to DDOSing. The thing is that all the computers on here are on the same thread so it will be harder to successfully DDOS.
Dmoney, the reason that we initially tried to avoid using automatable resources is due to ease of growth money supply. See my post against fxstriker above. Also using base resources will cause cost-push issues where economy stagnates because it may be better to cash-in than sell. If these are only to be intended as exchange rates then why set this all up!?!?!?! The economy is run by people operating under restrictions not by fixed unchanging rules. EDIT: Holy bejeezus, Chrome only worth 5x Ruby and copper being worth more than iron? Oh and why don't I go right now and setup 75 cobble generators. It'll only take 29 minutes for 1 iridium and I can go use that 479 EU/t somewhere else. This is why people stop making iridium the intended way and why prices will skyrocket.
>The economy is run by people operating under restrictions not by fixed unchanging rules. The Economy is currently run by anyone who has a Trade-o-Mat With no help from any of the mods we have absolutely no access to any sort of intrinsic money. It is better to cash in then sell. The only paradox we are dealing with is that we are trying to jumpstart an Economy out of thin-air after the server was launched way before. The sad fact of the matter is that no matter what path we take, there are already many people on this server who have wealth beyond means, making it immediately unfair if we adjust prices to the wealthy; no starting player could ever possibly be involved until they are already on their feet. My point is that this Economy is to help new players get access to materials. This requires sacrifice by people who are better off; to make a program filled with raw materials just for the selling. The Enclave is more than happy to launch such a program. Let us have an example: Some new player gives me 4 iron for one steel. I take the received Iron and put it back on sale with the rest of the Iron. Then someone comes along and gives me 1 Diamond in exchange for 18 Iron. I put the Diamond back on sale with the rest, etc. etc. While the prices here in the list will have to be tweaked to be all be base of 5, its a working system of which can be agreed upon. Since there is no actual Fiat Money, it MUST be done in materials (no matter how much I protest) The best way to do so is to set up a base which many people could agree upon. Now you read all of this, I am just going to remind you we have players of unimaginable wealth already and nothing can be done about that.
Well, then this means that we will have to restrict the passageways that could be used to enter the system. By restricting the passageways we effectively force the richer and not-so-rich to use sales and etc. to accrue and use their wealth. If the passageways are left open, then the economy becomes a trading post between the established and even more so established.
>Chrome only worth 5x Ruby It makes the incentive to trade in smaller denominations, not to mention the fact new players cannot get access to Chrome without Industrial Blast Furnaces. >Copper being worth more than iron Copper is used more often than Iron once you get later into the game. Copper is also found less than Iron in all of my experiences on SKCraft. >Oh and why don't I go right now and setup 75 cobble generators. Like the point I made, some things do belong and some things do not belong in the system, this is where we do not piss at each other about it, but provide honest opinions about what to have in this system. >This is why people stop making iridium the intended way and why prices will skyrocket. Then take Iridium out of the equation or make it more expensive, this is a place where everyone's opinion is a good contribution to the conversation. I knew I would not get it right off-the-bat; let us keep collaborating. What are your thoughts, Hsun?
im not saying there should be no limit im saying there should be no hard limit -.- but rather a timed limit on the (player itself not global)
Oh, and another thing to add. While this will be a shaky start, if any "wealthy" players want to contribute it would be greatly appreciated. I am not asking you to give away your items and try to level the high class and the lower class, but if any of you want to participate it would be appreciated. I speak for the new players, the lower class, and middle class (or the main populace of this server). We should all be able to have a simple access to many materials. The Bazaar was a good start, now we need to level the fields and prevent obvious price differences. (1 Iridium for 2 Titanium/Chrome and 1 Iridium for 16 Chrome) ((I've seen both in the bazaar) Even if I must do it alone, I think it unfortunate. On that note, I should get that city started. The Enclave - City of the working class.
Ok, well then, revision proposal for guidelines for trade of resources: 8 Tin Ingot - 1 16 Coal - 5 (!) 1 Iron Ingot - 5 8/16 Redstone - 10 (?) 1 Copper Ingot - 10 1 Steel Ingot - 15 1 Gold Ingot - 20 1 Sapphire - 35 1 Ruby - 50 1 Diamond - 60 (!) 1 Emerald - 70 1 Chrome Ingot - 250 1 Titanium Ingot - 250 1 Iridium - 1000 I am encountering a possible issue where 64 coal is worth 20$k but can be turned into diamonds which are worth 60$k. (I'm not sure about the viability of using the reasoning behind Ruby and Diamond) I also suggest decreasing these values in interest of introducing value-bias, which will discourage the use of the lower tier items as an entry point.
