> Discuss ? This is my opinion: Logically we are all determinists. Through science we have discovered that our brain, memory and emotions work through a series of chemical connections. So theoretically everything we do is guided through complex chemical reactions, nothing else. Yet most humans rather believe in the apparent illusion of free will. Personally I am a compatibilist since I do believe in free will but also somewhat in determinism. I believe that what happens in our brain causes us to feel needs, but it is our choice to exercise these needs whenever we chose. However we still need to abide to certain laws of chemistry and physics; for example: When someone feels need to urinate it means that their bladder is nearly full, If that person denies his feelings out of free will then at some point the laws of physics and chemistry take over and the person loses control over his bladder. This is one of many examples in which although we as humans are able to exercise free will, we can only maintain it up to a certain point. Another example would be the man choosing to jump of a building, it is his choice to jump of the building but once he jumps physics takes over, he cannot go back up, he will have to keep falling and eventually die. Free will in this case is exercised until the point where he stepped off the ledge; he could have turned around since nothing was physically pushing him or making him jump. The problem associated with Determinism versus Free will is that there is a clash between our logic and our emotions. Our logical sense of knowing makes us realize that we are just a bunch of particles that interact through complicated chemical connections. But emotionally we tell ourselves that we are something else, something more, maybe even something better than just a bunch of cells that lives and dies. That is also why Religion and Spiritualism were created, to give us a belief that after death we don’t just turn into a pile of bones. It gives us hope that maybe, just maybe, we are more than a multicellular organism and that we are capable of living without the fear of death. Because before we die we would have something to look forward to, instead of knowing that we are going to end up in an abyss filled with darkness once we die. My explanation to prove to myself that free will exists would be to decide out of the blue to stand up and walk out of my room for no apparent reason whatsoever. This means to me that if I am able to do an action that will gain me nothing at all it has to originate from free will and not from determinism. Then again it might be determinism that is making me do such actions to keep the illusion of free will since I as a human being want to have free will and thus the best thing my brain can do is to create its illusion. I guess that the topic of free will versus determinism will always be debate, it is comparable to the most ancient question: “Who came first, the chicken or the egg?” because as long as we are unaware of how exactly the brain works, we will never be able to tell where the line is drawn between Free will and Determinism.
I think of myself somewhat deterministic. If my comments seem harsh/critical, I don't mean to be. If at no point do we break the laws of physics/chemistry/etc, then clearly the 'choice' to ignore the feeling was still the result of the electrochemical processes involved in the brain's decision making. Depending on what you define as 'choice', still no universal laws have been broken. I don't see how free will would have ended after leaving the building. You would still have free will, but you would be incapable of turning around after that. The two hemispheres of the brain do very different things, although some things do overlap. One side (left for most people) is responsible for Logic. The other deals with emotions. We are, in some sense two different people. See "split-brain". Again, left and right hemispheres are very different and serve different purposes. Imagine: All emotion - We would have no capability for rational thought and would make poor decision motivated by emotion exclusively. Contrasting, an all logic system would lead to a lack of 'connection' between mating partners which could lead to a lack of motivation for reproduction. Religion often promises a perfect afterlife in comparison to the real world. If this afterlife were such, why would there be any reason for the real world? Why not just end it now, and head straight to the perfect afterlife? Whereas an atheistic view can motivate to make the most out of what you have, before it is all gone. I think that the real reason behind it is not to offer personal gain, but to offer a chance at meeting those passed, again - which appeals to our emotional hemisphere's empathy. Again, you cannot distinguish from the likelihood of said action being the result of the brain's electrochemical function. I don't think the brain seeks to illude. Although the possibility of a deterministic universe means everything is predetermined, the fact that nothing could ever predict the result (due to entropy, and other sciency stuff), essentially we are still in the present, not living out some predetermined turn of events. In my view, although events may be deterministic, the function of our brain, even if determined, has an effect. Free will really depends on your definition. You are right. We will never know... likely. As for the chicken or the egg? The Egg. Dinosaur eggs existed long before chickens. As for the actual chicken egg... The Egg. Why?
wow, when i say what red first quoted, i didn't want to ready anymore. Do we really need to debate about something like that?.
We have free will. We do not get to choose the consequences of our choices. Just because the consequences (your example of the bladder ultimately relieving itself is a consequence of our choice not to control when it is relieved, not a choice itself) aren't always happy and cheerful doesn't mean we don't have free will.
